Transcript

Veronica: Rick and I will be back next time, but today I have a very special bonus episode of is child free for me, where my program graduates share their personal story of how they found peace and confidence with the child free choice. Today, you will meet Erica. Erica didn't initially choose to be child free.

She spent 10 years navigating a challenging infertility journey, leaving her on. future. She grappled with concerns about not becoming a mother and fear that her life might always feel incomplete. Erica also faced the judgment and expectation from her faith based community. When joining my program is child free for me, Erica embarked on an intense self discovery journey, which continues to this day.

Her willingness to this To be vulnerable and open has illuminated her complex but intentional path to finding joy with [00:01:00] her child free life. If you find yourself questioning your decision, Erica's determination to shape her own destiny will inspire you to take charge of yours. Let's get into it.

I have a treat for you today because no matter where you are in your journey or no matter how much you know or don't know about child free life, I really feel that this conversation I'm about to have is really going to open your eyes to to the depthness of the child free choice of the child free life.

I don't think that people see that there are child free by circumstance people in the child free connection because they're just imagining that that can't possibly be the case. So let me go ahead and welcome Erica. Erica and I have known each other for about two years. Erica lives in Montana with her husband, Daniel.

They've been married for six. Which I didn't know she just told me before we [00:02:00] started and we originally met when she inquired about my program Is child free for me and right after we had that original conversation I was a thousand percent sure And I only say this when I am to people That I knew that I could support you that I could bring you some clarity that I could bring you some peace So I was really hoping that you would hop onto the program and you did erica is child free by circumstance And she has been raised in Still is a part of a faith based community, and I'm really excited for y'all to meet her and get into her story.

Welcome, Erica. 

Ericka: Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here. Yeah, I'm 

Veronica: so happy to chat with you. And I think I want to start by asking, do you consider yourself child free by circumstance? Or do you consider yourself child free by choice? Cause I don't think I've ever asked you that before. 

Ericka: Well, I am by circumstance child free.

However, I have gotten a little more towards the direction of child free by choice. Um, in the simple fact that a lot of times with [00:03:00] child free by choice, there is just a different perspective. Whereas child free by circumstance, a lot of people in the community who are child free by circumstance call themselves childless as it is a loss.

Veronica: So, Erica, you grew up in a large faith based family with how many siblings? 

Ericka: Ten siblings. 

Veronica: Ten siblings. So, how deep was faith a part of your everyday life? 

Ericka: It was integrated in every day. We read the Bible every morning together as a family. We did all Christian curriculum and we were homeschooled. We had pretty closed communities.

that we, we've spent time with not integrated with other groups and stuff. Yeah. Very, very much. We don't associate with people who don't believe like we do. My parents and my family didn't believe that, but the communities that we interacted with were very much that way. 

Veronica: What was the point? If there was any, you know, up until high school that you saw something, maybe it was on TV.

I'm not sure if you were able to watch whatever you wanted, [00:04:00] but when something said to you, Oh, there's other ways of doing life. 

Ericka: My oldest brother is 10 years older than me. So by the time I was in my teens, he was grown, getting married. So then I started seeing my own siblings started to choose different things.

Now, my oldest brother and most of my brothers kind of stayed in the same group that we were, we grew up in, but my sister kind of went to different. direction. She was not treated very well by some of the community that we were in, so she ended up getting away from that more religious community. And so then she started living a much different life.

And pretty much most of us girls, the five of us girls, or the six of us girls, ended up really moving away from how we'd been raised. Not necessarily in a religious sense, because all are still very, very devout Christians and follow Christ, but in the fact that we don't have to look so much different in the world, if you will.

Veronica: When were you away? where that having children was a choice and I don't mean like into your twenties. I mean, like, was there an awareness of [00:05:00] it? Let's say up to 20. 

Ericka: Obviously I have five younger siblings. So I experienced my mom being pregnant. Um, I experienced my mom losing her last pregnancy. I experienced my aunt being pregnant and I was actually there when my aunt had a baby.

And I remember even at like 10, 11, 12, being like, This is scary being like, why do people do this? All of our friends had big families. So I was always around little kids, always, always. And little kids love me. I love little kids, little kids. I could hang out with toddlers all day. Cause they're just so much fun.

Veronica: I mean, it was like 

Ericka: second nature to you 

Veronica: because you had all these brothers and sisters and because you have all these cousins, you have so many cousins. How many cousins do you have? 

Ericka: I, on my mom's side, there are 32. cousins, I believe. On my dad's side, there's like 22. 

Veronica: I mean, that's incredible. I mean, you have over 50 cousins.

There's so much going on. Okay, so you're watching all this, you're trying to figure it out. And then how, what was the discussion with Daniel when you started dating [00:06:00] as far as both of you having children? 

Ericka: Our social life when we were dating was his high school. We still go to the basketball games and All of his classmates have kids in school.

So it was just kind of like assumed this was going to be what our life would look like. We would eventually have kids. They would go to school here. They would go to his Alma mater and it would be just like everybody else. 

Veronica: So there's not a lot of room for discussion when you're both just assuming this is what's going to happen.

Ericka: Right. 

Veronica: Yeah. 

Ericka: Right. 

Veronica: So how long were you married before you decided that you were going to have your first kid? 

Ericka: 2011 is when we decided to start trying to have kids. And it was really interesting cause. If this is the discussion kind of went like this, well, I guess we should probably start having kids. And my cousin had just had a baby, which is really interesting because he was horribly colicky, didn't sleep at all.

My cousin was absolutely miserable. She had postpartum and I don't know what was like, Oh, I guess this misery, it's my turn. Yeah. Let's do that. Let's do that thing. Dan's. [00:07:00] Classmates already had kids. They were preschool, kindergarten age kids. It was like, well, everyone else has kids 

Veronica: now. So you and Dana were thinking everyone's having a baby.

The whole family, people are growing up. It's our turn now, right? Right. You just go for it. Let's just do it. It's our turn. Okay. And then you start to have complications early on. 

Ericka: No. So I got birth control. So we weren't real like, Oh, let's Do it when we're supposed to, or la, la, la, we're just, we're not gonna prevent is basically what is kind of how I look at it now.

We just stopped preventing pregnancy. Yes. And we did that for five years and we didn't get pregnant and it was getting, like, concerned probably about two, two and a half years into it. 

Veronica: So at the two and a half mark, is that when you started seeking professional help? 

Ericka: No, you waited till the five 

Veronica: year mark.

Ericka: We started seeking help at the five, pretty much the five year marks like January of 2016. So yeah, I would say in that first five years, I wasn't [00:08:00] really obsessed with it happening. I was more worried about my health. So worried about like the getting pregnant part, the longer this takes, the more I realized that there's something wrong with me, there's something not working either with me or with him or something's not going right at the same time.

Once you start that path of fertility treatment, it's fricking expensive. Yeah. And B, it's almost like a conveyor belt you can't get off of a little bit. 

Veronica: There's a very, like, underlying, no matter what, you don't stop. And to me, like, no matter what means, no matter what procedures you need to have, no matter what medications you need to take, no matter what, Surgeries take place no matter how many miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies.

It must feel really difficult to like look at any other option. 

Ericka: Because I didn't want to be that lady who couldn't have kids. I didn't want to be the one everyone's praying for to get pregnant. To me was felt like a real Invasion of my privacy. I didn't want people to be praying over my sex life. That's weird.

That was uncomfortable for me. Five year mark is when I went, I went [00:09:00] for my first infertility treatment and it wasn't actually a treatment. It was, it was, this is how much this is going to cost you. So make sure you can pay for it before you start. 

Veronica: So, okay. So then you spent the five years you start and then you went another five years of actually doing treatments and correct.

Ericka: Yes, correct. Within about six weeks after that first, this is how much it's going to cost you to go to fertility treatment. 

Veronica: Mm hmm. 

Ericka: So 

Veronica: before you even paid the money or tried it. 

Ericka: Before I did anything, seven and a half weeks, I had a I had excruciating pain, and I went to the emergency room, a larger hospital about an hour away.

Okay. And I was, I was diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy. That's when I was told I had endometriosis. They told me at that time that it was very unlikely that I would get pregnant. Naturally, because my fallopian tubes were unhealthy, and so they recommended that if we wanted to get pregnant, we should try to use IVF, and that was pretty much our only option.

Veronica: Were you [00:10:00] in a space where you're like, I can't even think about IVF right now, I just want to get through this, or were you in a space where you were like, okay, IVF next, got it. 

Ericka: IVF, I had always kind of not really been comfortable with. IVF is also the most expensive way to get pregnant. Yeah, I know from my friends, it's insane.

And most insurances in the United States don't cover. You have to get really good insurance. Being told that it was IVF, that IVF was the only option, we were kind of like, well, I guess we're not having kids. You know, I'm grieving the loss. There's, you know, trying to go back to work. And four weeks later, I'm pregnant again.

And not only that, but I didn't even know I was pregnant. until I was in the emergency room. This time my tube did burst. Internal bleeding, horrible pain, like the first time was nothing compared to the second time. So then, second loss immediately right after, not even started to grieve the first loss.

Veronica: Where are you at this point as far as like trust? 

Ericka: I was fortunate at the time. To be working in a pregnancy resource center. There was a nice Catholic lady that [00:11:00] I'm really close to to this day. She's like one of my closest, dearest friends that she recommended that I go to this place, a Catholic facility in Omaha, that they do everything but IVF.

And at this point now, right, I'm double grieving. I had had seven weeks of thinking I was going to be a mom. I had, you know, all those thoughts, the big, um, expectation in my mind had always been rocking my own baby. And it would have always been that image in my mind. And I had gone that seven weeks thinking that this was going to be my image.

And then I lost it and then I lost it again. Then came this, I have to fill this with me because I couldn't face the hurting, couldn't face the grieving, because you're 

Veronica: so close to it, and I had 

Ericka: reached 

Veronica: my 30s, 

Ericka: right? So, right. So now, now there's that time clock ticking, right? You're going to be in a geriatric pregnancy.

Yes. You know, there's, The risks multiply after you turn 30 and all these things. Yeah, 

Veronica: the fear knob gets turned up all the way. Okay, so you decide [00:12:00] to go to Omaha and then what happens after that? I 

Ericka: had surgery a few times. I never did get pregnant and I never got pregnant again. 

Veronica: Did you have an end date?

I'm not doing this anymore. 

Ericka: Took a break till Christmas. We were going to go to Florida for First Fortieth. We were able to just have so much freedom and it was so nice. To just be in Florida with all of these people we cared about and celebrate and have a fun time. And we were still just on pause with the whole crying of a baby.

I remember standing on the beach with my cousin and this is the same cousin who had had the very difficult pregnancies and she had two and she does say people should talk about not having kids as an equal option. As somebody who has kids, there's a big aspect of it that I miss, right? 

Veronica: What did it feel like to you to hear someone who has kids.

Say that. 

Ericka: I felt like it almost like opened a window in a really dark room. It was like, there is other ways to do this. It doesn't have to be this way. It was just really comforting to know that she [00:13:00] didn't have all the happiness that I was missing out on. And that she was being 

Veronica: honest and truthful with you.

Ericka: It was a big thing because this whole, that whole trip was just this big, maybe you've been a mom enough to everyone else. I have kind of already been a mom. A little bit. 

Veronica: I 

Ericka: and I do have some of that kind of relationship with with especially my real young siblings who's who were really young when my mom passed.

That's when it really got to the point where it was more like if it happens, it happens. 

Veronica: So I'm wondering when you came and booked the call with me to see if is child free for me was for you. What were you thinking through that process? 

Ericka: On one side. There's, I don't get to have, I don't get to have, I don't get to have.

And then on the other side, there's this, I get to have this, I get to have this, I get to have this, right? All these experiences with children. I don't get to have, but all these experiences without children. Well, this one's kind of nice. This is kind of nice. This is kind of nice. I kind of like that. This is the [00:14:00] case we can, we do, we drop off everything and just leave for the weekend randomly because we can.

And. So, and there's a lot of aspects of not having children that I started to realize, like, I like this. A big thing that drew me to your page that was different than a lot of the pages I had been a part of were, like I said earlier, like the childless to the childfree. Mm hmm. This concept of loss and not getting what I wanted.

To this concept of I didn't get what I wanted and I moved on and in those communities for people who are trying to have children, somebody who is moving on is really hard to be around. 

Veronica: Yeah, I could see that. 

Ericka: And I could see myself being that to people, right? Like, 

Veronica: Yeah. 

Ericka: And it gets to a point where you're cynical, you're kind of hopeless.

And nobody who's trying to have a kid wants to talk to you. 

Veronica: And that makes sense. I understand what you're saying. [00:15:00] So when we spoke, you had sort of taken a peek, but you really had not really a good idea of what a child free life would mean to you and how it can be joyous and fulfilling from the outside.

It was really interesting to watch you go through the program because the change Spirit and your confidence in who you are was so dramatic to me. I mean, I don't know if the people around you noticed it or at all, and it has only gone up since, but it was almost like a completely different person. And thank you because I actually got so much out of it.

Just watching this happen with you. It was so powerful. 

Ericka: I think the big reason I was drawn to your page was. I was tired of the pity and your page was like, there's nothing to feel sorry for. This is great. There was an aspect of it too, where I care so [00:16:00] much for these other people's children. And that was a big part of our big families.

together what I like to do. And as I was going through that child free experience with is child free for me, there was so much of gathering pieces of myself that I had ignored. It is such a huge experience for really, truly. Accepting what I feel I'm here on this planet to be. And that is, I call it an extra adult.

I like to call it, I'm an extra adult. We need more adults around here. And then I get to be auntie to, uh, I think number 35 was born yesterday. So I'm, 

Veronica: Wow. So, do you think that there is space in your specific church to come out as child free by choice? 

Ericka: In my specific church, probably. The community I grew up in, heck no.

Veronica: No. Okay. Never. Yeah. Never. 

Ericka: Having children and being in a big family and letting God decide [00:17:00] the size of your family is such a huge fundamental part of what they believe. 

Veronica: When you went to the program and then you were like, I'm taking this and going all the way like I have to dissect my entire life now and I'm going to start from day one and I think that's another thing I like about the program too, because it's very introspective.

Right? I'm not telling anyone what to do and how to feel or what kind of decision to make, but it really wakes up to like, Give you that space to look within and answer a lot of questions that you maybe don't Know that you need to ask yourself so it opens up this whole door I mean i've been on a self development journey forever.

I mean, especially like I had the same experience That's many of you where you know It took me over 10 years to decide if I was going to have children or not So you take that self development and you run with it, which is what you've done And you're now like dissecting it all and like what? Is my belief system.

What have I been taught? Is it right? Is it [00:18:00] true? And what does it feel like to be in that space right now? Like I know that it can be really hard. It feels like you're like digging through the gross dirt And it's hard and it's complicated and it's painful But like you get to the point that you like plant something and then you watch that start growing right and then you have this right, so It depends on where we are.

Sometimes we're in the dirt. Sometimes we're planting the seed. It takes a while, by the way, to get to the point where like you're watering it and the sunshine is on it. But I mean, it's worth it, right? It's worth it. I know it doesn't seem like it's worth it sometimes, but I can just speak from experience because I've been down in that dirt.

I've been asking the questions. Digging inside myself. What am I about? Why am I here? And that all comes from very large decisions, including the ones that have kids or not. It's really inspiring me to see you go through that process and, and honor yourself and care for yourself. So [00:19:00] much that you want to do it.

Ericka: Thank you. And it's really great to hear it is definitely, they call it toiling. It's a, it's a very biblical term for, for you toil in your life. And I definitely feel like I've been toiling with questions and with discoveries and with a lot of aspects of what I, my faith is and what my, how my faith comes into this child free choice, because like I said, the so much.

So fundamentally growing up, it was so like, you have kids, you have kids. My earliest memory of thinking of couples without children 

Veronica: is 

Ericka: the couple who lived next door in, uh, Christmas. Oh, what is that Christmas movie with that funny Christmas movie that everyone loves, right? Oh, Christmas Vacation. They're neighbors.

They're really neurotic neighbors. That was how whole, uh, child free people were represented. They were really, really, really snobby and really, really like crappy 

Veronica: perception. Yeah. Yeah. Which a lot of people still feel. I mean, as we know, [00:20:00] this is all not true. True. And I see it even with our membership community.

I mean, I couldn't have handpicked these people. We have similar hobbies. We have similar interests. Thank you so much for being such an active member of our membership community. I think my favorite part is like being able to travel and a lot of places that the members live in and you can like hook up with them if you're out somewhere.

And I feel that it's such a powerful. Connection to be able to like be in this together and keep riding this roller coaster of this lifestyle. And then just who cares what everybody else thinks. Like we're just in there for each other. 

Ericka: A big aspect of this child free community that I've really, really enjoyed is that there is this concept that we aren't less than, and that is still something that I'm I'm.

I'm reprogramming in my mind is that my time is just as valuable as the parents time. My life is [00:21:00] just as valuable as somebody who has children. And it isn't this without life, right? And that's a big thing that has been going through my mind lately is that this is my life with. All of these things, right?

I get all this. I'm choosing the life I'm living. I'm not choosing to miss the life I don't have. And I can't tell you enough how much I've appreciated being able to choose my life. And that's, that's so good. Is that I choose this life that I'm already living in and it is great. It is really great. And my husband's coming a little bit around to the two.

He's like, you know, if we had kids, this would suck. He's said that a couple of times in the last month and I've just been like, See, it's not that 

Veronica: no, we're just building a community of this, not putting anyone else down. Right? Everyone live however you want to live. And we applaud you and congratulate you for that.

But we're not going to allow you to bring us down, which is in turn what you're [00:22:00] saying. So that everybody can just live the life that they want. We just want to grow together and we want to be, you know, in a, in an environment and in a space where we thrive together and we support each other. And yeah.

Yeah. So thank you so much, Erica, for sharing your story. Yeah. I just really appreciate you, um, sitting with me and talking about your personal story and how it has evolved in the last few years. So thank you so much. 

Ericka: Thank you. I really appreciate you having asked me and I'm really excited. I really feel like we need to discuss it.

It just needs to be discussed. So I 

Veronica: appreciate it. 100%. 100%. Thanks, Erica. Bye bye.