Transcript

Veronica: [00:00:00] Rick and I will be back next time, but stick with me today because I have a very special bonus episode of Is Child Free For Me, where my program graduates share their personal stories of how they found peace and confidence with the child free choice. Today, you will meet Charlotte, a 32 year old woman from Sweden, whose anxiety intensified when her best friend announced her pregnancy.

Charlotte didn't feel ready to have kids, so she panicked with the thought that it would. to have kids too. The initial panic led to a sea of confusion about motherhood and children. Charlotte first worked with a therapist who, although helpful, didn't contribute to her confidence in making a final decision.

She also felt lonely and isolated because no one close to her was considering the child free choice. Charlotte's determination to find clarity was fueled by a New Year's resolution to Self love and self care. I am certain [00:01:00] that you'll be inspired by her dedication and willingness to find inner peace.

Hi, Charlotte. Hi, Veronica. I am so, so happy that you're here. I think that people will be really interested in your personal childhood journey. There's a lot to unpack and a lot to say about it. I thought it would be good if we just went back to when we originally met. And it's so funny because we, you're in Sweden, I'm in the U S but.

At this point, I feel that we're such close friends at this point. It's, it's, it's really interesting. And I feel that way with all the members of the program, right? Like if, if somebody needed a place to stay, like they could just say it. That's where we are. When we originally met. Tell me how you were feeling at the time and what was going on.

I know that you were already married, correct? 

Yes, I've been Married for three, four years [00:02:00] now. We never really talked about having kids. We, we were more like, Oh, we'll get them later. And then my best friend got pregnant and she had like this baby craze, uh, and she was so obsessed with kids. Having a child and that really freaked me out. I was like, is this this now? Am I supposed to do this now? It's in my turn. But like, then I realized, yeah, I was 28 at that time. And I was like, Yeah, this is the time when you get kids and I was like, no, I'm not ready at all. And I started to panic so much and I couldn't understand why. Uh, so I was in contact with the therapist at the time and we discussed it through.

Charlotte: So I got through like where some of my anxiety stemmed from and why I really don't want it. But it didn't really give me all of the answers. So I was still having a lot of [00:03:00] anxiety. Well, is it okay if I don't have a kid? Like, will I regret it? Yeah, you know. Yeah. 

Veronica: Yeah. No, absolutely. I can relate because I went through it for, you know, 10 plus years.

But explain to me more about what the anxiety was. Before my 

Charlotte: friend got pregnant, I didn't think about it at all. Uh, but because she got pregnant, it was like, oh, I need to think about this now. I need to make a decision. I had anxiety about it every day, basically. And I just couldn't settle in myself. Like, how do I feel about this?

I have this, oh, but I should have kids. It will probably be good. But then I had constantly this inner panic just, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, and also people just saying to me, Oh, you will regret it if you don't. It affects you. Like if everyone says that, it doesn't affect you. 

Veronica: Yeah. Yeah. [00:04:00] I think if everyone keeps delivering the same message to you, eventually you start to say, well, this message must be true and maybe there's something wrong with me and my feelings are.

Yeah. Incorrect or they're off my thought process is off because everyone around me is telling me that I'm making a bad decision and I'm going to regret it and I'm going to live this miserable life. So it gets very confusing for sometimes when people give you unsolicited advice, we can take that with a grain of salt, you know, if it's in business or if it's in other areas of your life, but when it comes to this serious life altering life changing decision.

Those comments and those questions really just get into your soul. Yeah. 

Charlotte: Yeah. Also, like another large part was I didn't have anyone close by who didn't have kids. So I couldn't talk to anyone. I didn't even know that that [00:05:00] was a thing, uh, really. So like. Can you do that? Like, do I even have the option? Like, is this normal?

So I was feeling 

Veronica: alone also in these thoughts. It's so interesting because sometimes I'll get DMs or messages or even comments here on YouTube that, you know, I don't know what you're talking about. Everything's fine. Like no one criticizes this. Everyone's very clear on what it is. And it baffles me when I get Those comments and questions, because there's thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of women like us who went through this gray zone area where you're just ruminating and ruminating and ruminating and.

And you can't figure it out, you can't, you can't figure it out because you're just driving yourself crazy. Yeah. So tell me what motivated you to book the initial call with me. It was like a leap of faith, I [00:06:00] guess. 

Charlotte: I mean, I think we talked a few weeks prior to that call where you just want to do like some market research, basically.

Veronica: Yeah, that was, I was in the middle of my market research and just like, For people who don't know, before I launched my program, I spent about 10 months or so just speaking to women around the globe to make sure that I was going in the right direction, right? Like I had an idea of what the program was and what the community was, but yeah, you are one of the people in my market research study.

And so we had spoken initially and then we had a second call. Yeah. And so 

Charlotte: you kind of. mentioned in the first call, like, Oh, would you be interested in a program if there was one? And that started my thoughts like, I was like, Oh yeah, that, that could be good. It wasn't something I decided on, but I thought about it a lot.

And then when you reached out about the program, I was like, yes, I have to do this basically. Yeah. I was still [00:07:00] nervous. Like, because it's a. Big leap, and you never know, like, worst case scenario, it's a scam. 

Veronica: Yes! I mean, I hear that from everyone. They're like, I don't know, maybe you're just like But like, 

Charlotte: considering your, like, social media presence and what you have built, it didn't feel like a scam like that.

It was a leap of faith, but it was still like, it's probably not a scam. 

Veronica: I'm interested to hear, like, for you, what Were you trying to get out of it for your, what was your personal need and personal goals? 

Charlotte: It held like a New Year's resolution, basically, to take care of myself more. And this was a step in that direction, to understand myself and calm myself, like, calm the anxiety and also do something for myself.

Veronica: Yeah, it definitely is an act of self love. It's just so ingrained in you to take care of others that it's really hard [00:08:00] to, okay, I'm going to do something for myself. What would you say that you were hoping for this to be, in addition to like calming yourself down? 

Charlotte: Yeah, I mean, it was, uh, nerve wracking, but also kind of exciting, I think, because you had really done This is a research, I could tell.

You did the whole walkthrough, where we were supposed to do every session, what we were supposed to talk about. It felt really worked through. And your research found so many interesting facts about how society worked, how child free people have been throughout the years, like the ages. everything like that.

So it was super, super interesting. So I was very excited to be starting after that first session. And also like, it felt nice that you weren't going to do it alone, that you could talk about it with others in the same seat as 

Veronica: you. So, so I feel what I saw is that [00:09:00] everybody during the lounge sessions really started to bond immediately, because Everyone in our program is the same grayish zone, but with very different details.

Everyone's story is so unique in their own way, but ended up in the same place due to various reasons in their life. And how did you feel about listening to their experiences versus what you were going through? 

Charlotte: It was really refreshing for me to hear about other people's stories, other ways you can fall into the child free life.

It gave me such a good understanding of people in general. You can never assume anything. 

Veronica: I know. I mean, we were blown away with some of the stories in our, in our community. I mean, I know I was when people share. And people share so openly. So tell me about parts of the program. So whoever [00:10:00] is watching right now, the program is a series of video sessions, pre recorded video sessions that are there to really, um, teach you about.

The fundamentals of what you just mentioned, the history of child free and really define different areas that might be affecting you, whether it's your relationships, your friendships, whether it's biological clock, whether you're feeling not normal. Why are you feeling this way? Why are you feeling so alone?

So for you personally, what started coming together for you? 

Charlotte: Biggest part for me was, uh, When I learned about, like, how society is just pestering you with all of this be a mother, marketing, propaganda, whatever you want to call it, the biggest light bulb for me, as you know, was when I realized, oh, it's just directed towards everyone, not me personally, even though I've seen it.

seal. It's like, it's [00:11:00] an individual sign for me. It's just for everyone. It doesn't have a goal. It doesn't have a specific group they're targeting. It makes you feel 

Veronica: lighter because once you realize that so many women are feeling the same and also feeling the same about all the pronatalism that's coming at them, Then you're right.

And you were the first person to say that. It's like, wow, it's not just me. It's, it's, it's just women in general, really. I think we can generalize that and just say women. One thing that we talked about early on was that this isn't a program to try to. Convert people, like, follow my ways, you know, come to the light.

Yeah. And that was something I was concerned with because I wanted to make it very, very, very clear that. That's not what this is about. I'm [00:12:00] just here to support and guide you, but this is ultimately about you. You're the one. We have a workbook section of the program where there's a lot of questions for reflection and answers.

My core intention with this program is that people did not feel that they had to be child free at the end of the day. That I was. Trying to make them child free. So I just want to get your perspective on that. 

Charlotte: I think you succeeded in being pretty neutral. I mean, of course this program is designed for those who are at least are considering child free life.

So I mean, it's somewhat of course, but it's still a very open and you can openly discuss about things. You have these snapshot baby moments that you may want to live out. And talk about like the longing for that, or like the feeling of being pregnant. 

Veronica: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's why I'm so focused on that section because I always felt that if you want to learn about [00:13:00] motherhood, it's.

very accessible. Uh, you know, a lot of us in the program have nieces and nephews that we're very close to or mentoring a young adult or just have a connection. We have teachers who have their students and even our family, like we see when they raise their Children what it's like, like we actually have a front row seat.

Okay, we get this right. But for me, and you can tell me about you is I was very in the dark when it came to, if I make this choice, what is this going to even look like? Yeah. Yeah. 

Charlotte: For me, it was like getting the opportunity to really go through all of the different aspects of having a kid versus not having a kid.

Like, really preparing myself mentally to what this choice would mean for me in the future and now. So it gave me, like, everything really I [00:14:00] needed to know for myself. Like, you aren't giving all the answers, but like, I found out the answers for me through this program. And also what's important, I think if you still go through this program and want, decide you want to have a kid, I I mean, you have done so much research on yourself, um, soul searching, whatever, that if you go through this program and want a kid, you know, you really do want a kid.

Like it's not going to stop you from wanting to have a kid, it's just going to make you I think it's going to bring more clarity, right? It's going to make you have like an informed decision about getting children. This is really about getting me to make 

Veronica: an informed decision. It's just about having choice and have the informed decision.

The information to make that decision and the support and the community, tell me how you actually, let's talk about first your partner, your husband, what was his take on this? 

Charlotte: Well, he thought it [00:15:00] was a great idea. Actually, he, he was the one encouraging me to actually do this, take this program because I was like, Oh, hesitating.

Oh, should I do it? And he was like, yes, you should do it because you obviously need this. Like do something for your stuff. And I was like, yeah, you're right. 

Veronica: It's probably like, it's probably an interesting for some of the husbands or partners, because now that. Their wife has an outlet where she can just talk about this a lot and she doesn't have to come to me every single time, too.

So they get a little bit of a break, too. Yeah, it's really, it's really funny. Although they're listening and they're supportive, I'm sure. But it's, I think it's nice to have, you know, a separate than your partner. It's really interesting because we've talked about this. Um, in our lounge sessions that relationships are top priority for all of us, really.[00:16:00] 

And how does that affect you as far as. Wanting to focus on your relationship versus making the decision to have a child. And did that go through your mind of like how that's going to affect your relationship? Put a lot of time and energy into each other. 

Charlotte: And like, it's so easy to just slip away and just neglect each other.

You get, you know, the work grind, like every day, just. Cleaning, cooking, whatever. And so it's easily done to just follow a focus on each other. But he has been super grateful for learning through me about his childhood journey. So he feels a lot more secure and informed also, even though he technically didn't go through the program, he still has learned a lot and feels.

He himself a lot more secure. So that's also 

Veronica: very nice. Did you feel inside that magical day is going to come when you wake up and you're like, okay, I'm ready to be a mom. Did you feel that [00:17:00] that day was, could maybe come in the future? Yeah. I mean, before 

Charlotte: my best friend got pregnant, I felt like I was like, yeah, I'm definitely not ready right now.

We had a pregnancy scare and I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, but that was like in my early twenties and it's like, yeah, people don't, yeah, it's pretty terrifying. So I just thought, Oh, it'll come when I'm 30 or whatever. And then it never came. I don't feel any deep pull from within me to have like a kid. 

Veronica: I know that the, for you, most of the struggle was going on internally, which is actually very common because sometimes Women feel, well, I'm not getting pressured from my partner.

I'm not getting pressured from my parents, so I must be fine. But they're not sleeping. They're thinking about our work. They're ruminating. They're just driving themselves crazy. And that internal pressure to me is [00:18:00] just as heavy, if not heavier than getting pressure from parents and siblings and family, what was holding you back from being, saying to yourself, this is what I want to do.

Charlotte: Part of 

Veronica: it 

Charlotte: is, 

Veronica: like, 

Charlotte: I think I didn't really know myself, um, as well as I needed to, so I feel like, just as you've mentioned, that you are, I'm very maternal in my ways, so, like, isn't this supposed to be natural for me, and not, like, this is gonna be so easy, probably, because I'm a natural at it, whatever. So that was, sort of, also keeping me back, because I'm, I am maternal and I still, like, maybe don't have that big of an interest in kids, but yeah, it's 

Veronica: sort of, yeah.

When people say that you're selfish, being a child free woman, it's very selfish, and what, how does that make you feel? And what does that make you think about? 

Charlotte: I don't get it at all because, like, how is [00:19:00] it selfish to not bring a child into the world that you don't want? But, and how is it considered not selfish to bring a child into the world because you want it?

Like how is that not selfish? Also, you could consider having a kid without properly thinking it through, like thinking through thinking every through, every aspect. You can call that selfish just to get a kid and see what happens. Yeah, that's probably the next step to just make an uninformed decision.

Like, I don't understand it. I'm making a decision. For myself, that's gonna make my life and the world 

Veronica: around me better. This word bothers me so much because it's just weaponized against child free women. And to me, it's so clear that we're all selfish and selfless at the same time. Yeah. And What's wrong with that?

Yeah. There are so many women like us, like so many, I find that they tend to not speak as [00:20:00] loudly and they tend not to show their voice as much because of the Sigma and because of, well, I'm not sure. So therefore I'm just going to internalize this and then get all the symptoms that come with that. Um, so I wonder why.

What do you think that women who are in this, um, leaning towards, I think I want to be child free or I am child free, but my mind keeps bouncing back to, am I making the biggest decision of my life? How did you feel about it? I 

Charlotte: mean, part of it is like, you think you're very alone in it and that no one else experienced it and you don't really want to be that vulnerable with people that you don't really, really know how they're going to react.

And also because the narrative is the way it is in society, for me, it was also part, like, I was very outspoken with most people, but for certain people, it's like, if I say this now, I know what answer I'm going to get. It's like, Oh, well, [00:21:00] you'll change your mind. It's going to be better. Yeah. Like, it's a natural thing for women, like you know what they're going to say.

And that thing, that stopped me also a couple of times. So that's, combined with being alone, like, You, since you don't really freely talk about and I think 

Veronica: that's a shame and I think also because you're not exactly giving a stage to voice your opinion, it's just the opportunity isn't really there to say, I'm really struggling with this.

I want this, but I'm getting pulled in this direction and maybe that's right for me. How do you even bring that up? And you're right. I don't think there was. I don't think I had a conversation with one single person when I was going through it. Now that I think about it, I don't think, I don't, I don't think I did.

What's your answer to people saying that we're avoiding responsibility? 

Charlotte: No, we're taking responsibility for our [00:22:00] actions, I would say. I mean, we are super informed, I'm more informed about having kids than my other friends that want kids. I have a person close to me who's like, Oh, I really want a baby. And I know their like background story of everything that's happening in their life.

And I'm just like, have you thought about this? Your relationship with your partner or like your mental health or whatever. And they're like, Oh no. And I'm like, Oh, But I want kids. And it's like, just think it through. Like, of course, if you want kids, get kids, but make sure that you're doing it for the right reasons.

Veronica: And by the way, I got the, from my family too, the, you'll just figure it out. And that, how do you feel about that? That piece of advice? 

Charlotte: I mean, I got that comment, like, And the person I was talking to was like, super acceptive of my choice, there is no issue in that, but [00:23:00] then I said like, she asked, um, Oh, what is, can you tell me any of the reasons behind it?

I was like, yeah, of course, and one of the reasons It's like, yeah, I'm just tired. I don't have the energy. And she was like, that's not going to be a problem. It'll work itself out. It's like, no, you don't understand how tired I am. 

Veronica: I mean, you have a very demanding job. Yeah. I have a very demanding 

Charlotte: job and like, I'm tired anyway, without demanding job.

Even after one night of too little sleep, like I would be so unhappy and just mentally 

Veronica: gone. Yeah. I just found it. so strange that people thought my thinking this through so thoroughly was unnecessary. And tell me about when your friend became pregnant, did that affect your friendship in at 

Charlotte: all? I was [00:24:00] really scared at the start, like during her pregnancy, if we were going to fall apart, but I was also scared.

super clear, like, I am the friend that you can get a break from motherhood. Like, we can talk about other stuff. And since she knew I was leaning towards the child free direction, we communicated really well about it. So, um, yeah. And then when the pregnancy, Like, and then she got the baby, and she asked if it was okay if she could bring him along for like, when we met.

I was like, yeah, sure, just don't do it every time. Because the phone will be on the baby if you bring it along. I mean, she did really well. She really put an effort into, um, talking about other stuff, so 

Veronica: it went well. It doesn't always go that great. I mean, we've heard it from other members of our community.

It doesn't always work out that way. And I think that your [00:25:00] point of setting boundaries and talking about it, first before the baby even arrives even is so valuable, but it's hard because when I was going through it, I wasn't, I was still so jumbled up in my head that I didn't even have the knowledge or the idea that this is what I should do because I was just like, Oh my God, everyone's having a baby and everyone's having babies.

And. We have to just talk about their babies all the time because I'm the only one and everybody else is a mom. So it's hard to sometimes interject. You 

Charlotte: have to make an effort yourself as a child free person because it's very easy for a mom to a newborn to talk about this sudden change in her life. As a child free friend, you have to make an effort to come up with stuff to talk about because it might not always be easy for the other person.

Veronica: So I'm curious to know, because The person that I spoke to that first time [00:26:00] and the person that you are now is a completely different person. And I mean, your confidence has just shot through the roof and not even just as a, as a confident child free woman, but just in so many other ways. It's been very.

Very obvious to us all. So tell me about that transformation. At the start, when we 

Charlotte: had our first meetings, I was like super alone, as I mentioned, and super insecure and just did not have anyone to talk about. Like you get things from YouTube videos and reels and posts on whatever, but it's not the same as talking to another person.

And also like, just, will I regret it? Will I regret it? Like, is this. I need to make this decision now, like, even if I have my whole life to make a decision technically. I'm not fertile forever, but like, I don't have to take it out, like, I'm anxious not to [00:27:00] be sure of myself, like, to not know. That also creates a lot of anxiety.

Not knowing myself or knowing where I was going was the start of it, so to say. And then the program started and I got to talk to all of these lovely ladies, including you, you have been such a great help, seriously. And, just, thank you. Going through all of these topics, these discussion points, talking and hearing the other women's perspectives and thoughts and reflections really, really helped.

Not just like, not everything was an aha moment. Right, it just helped me be calmer about it and also it's okay to talk about it and not know it's okay to not know everything is okay to Experience differently than others like no no person is the [00:28:00] same But we're just here to support each other and just learn about people and society in general and ourselves.

It was really, really, really sneaky. I didn't really notice it until, like, at the end. I was like, yeah, I feel completely different about it than I did at the start. So, yeah, but it helped a lot just to talk about your thoughts, your insecurities, whatever popped up that week. Any advertisement you've just seen in our posts on Facebook or Instagram or whatever.

Yeah. 

Veronica: So we also have a private Facebook group that all of us share interesting things on. Yeah. I mean, that 

Charlotte: helped just to be able to tackle together and talk through things that just happened in the weeks. Helps a lot because usually like if I wasn't in a program, uh, I would have to do that all alone and that's difficult if you don't know, like if you get [00:29:00] another person's perspective on it, it's a lot easier to see it in a different light and understand it in a different 

Veronica: way.

Charlotte: As 

Veronica: you say, you can listen to all the podcasts, read all the books. Watch all the videos, but it's not the same as, okay, now I have questions and I want to talk about this and I want to hear what other people have to say about it. So the community support and the chats are so much, you can go so much deeper after you watch something.

You could even share it in the group. People have shared like, look at this, right. And, and this made me feel this way. And, uh, it's nice to have that outlet. 

Charlotte: Yeah, and you're also really good at asking questions. 

Veronica: It's really helpful. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's more about like we talked about, it's more about self discovery, right?

I'm just asking the questions to help all of you just sort this stuff out. Did that help you more? The fact that I lived through this for a [00:30:00] Too long of an extended time so that every time someone shared a story, I'm like, yep, I was there. I felt that way too. I get it. So how did that feel for you? Oh, yeah, that was 

Charlotte: really good.

Just to get confirmation that this happens to everyone, basically. 

Veronica: Yeah, 

Charlotte: people are going through this. It was really, really helpful to have someone who has already been there and done that. And just, Here I am right now, and I still feel like this. Yeah, if I didn't join this program, probably would have spent like 5 or 10 years just having anxiety.

And I was like, I'm so glad I don't have that. 

Veronica: I know. I mean, it's true. It just keeps going. And that's the thing too, that people think it's just going to magically go away. And it doesn't. And if you don't take action on it. It doesn't go away. And that's just, you know, a fact. Uh, there has to be some steps.

[00:31:00] Taken in order to make yourself feel better and just have like, like you've mentioned, like that sense of peace of like, Oh my God, everything coming at me just feels so differently now, right? And we've talked about it. And I think we talked about it last week, how we have this like shield around us of empowerment.

And yeah. You know, that people can't penetrate us with their negative comments, with their condescending comments, with their invasive questions, because we're surrounded by this protective shield that makes us really, uh, really empowered. We don't just talk about being child free or thinking about being child free, or am I going to be child free?

We talk about so many things. You said that, that women should know that this space is not only about BHL3, but there's an overarching element of just women empowerment, [00:32:00] like women's empowerment. I think that that's really helpful as well. Oh, yeah. Because. It's about not only being solid and confident and at peace with this decision, but I think it bleeds over to other areas 

Charlotte: of your life.

Would you agree? Oh, yeah, definitely. We talked about so many different things. We talked about like moving, buy a house or like finances and like contraception, like periods, like stuff like that. Every thing. Yeah, just a lovely community where you could talk. It's such openness, seriously, and such positive energy and feelings and all of it.

So, I mean, anything's open. We talked about trips and what we did this weekend. Like, just encouraging each other is 

Veronica: awesome, seriously. Under this of the program, it's, it's, it's deeper and because it just comes [00:33:00] up all the time when you have the questions, when you have the worksheet at the end that you need to fill out and then plus your own journaling, uh, you really do get to know yourself.

And it's been, and it's been so, it's been such a privilege for me to see all of you just blossom and, and grow and grow and grow. feel so confident and just, yeah, it's been amazing to watch. It's been, it's been an honor. Starting the program 

Charlotte: and seeing the results and getting the support also made me want to continue to work on myself.

Veronica: So what would you say to anyone that's considering entering the program but doesn't understand when you're actually in there, what's actually happening? How would you Describe it to someone who's considering joining our community and applies to get an invite. You 

Charlotte: will get so much support. You will get this community also who is just gonna answer all of your questions.

Who's gonna be [00:34:00] there for you and give you the best advice, and also like different perspectives of things. And Veronica here is also gonna be the amazing guide and just help you through the journey and like go with you through every step of the way. You get so much more secure in yourself and in your decisions, so it's definitely worth it.

Veronica: Thank you for being here, Charlotte, for sharing your personal story, for sharing your experience with Is Child Free For Me. I really appreciate the leap of faith and having the confidence in the program and me and in yourself among such an amazing group of women. So thank you for talking to me today so much.

I love you all. Bye.