Transcript

Rick: [00:00:00] Okay, can I just say I am so happy we did this episode.

Veronica:  I am too. I am too. So Rick and I are on the struggle bus this week in this candid episode of our podcast. We're laying it all out as we unpack the recent challenges that life has thrown our way. 

Rick: Yeah, we considered skipping this episode, but instead found ourselves inspired to tackle a question we're frequently asked. Is child-free life easy? 

Veronica: Hmm, yeah. We're gonna answer that. And also, Rick shares his insight on an emotion that many of us feel, but it's often clouded by shame. Meanwhile, I reveal some heartbreaking news that's led me to reassess the very essence of gratitude. Let's get into it.

Rick: Alright, here we go. 

Veronica: Oh, that sounded not great. 

Rick: Well, I think. Yeah. We actually weren't going to do this podcast when we first woke up this morning. Right. Right. [00:01:00] Yeah. And then we thought about it. Actually, you thought about it and you're like, you know what? Just because maybe we're not having the best day, days, whatever, doesn't mean we should just hide from who we are and what we say on this podcast because that's part of our life.

We promise to share that with our listeners and viewers on YouTube and that's what we're doing. So I'm not trying to be like, Debbie Downer, but it's been like rough and we're going to get into that today. But I don't know, what were your thoughts when I woke up and I was like, Oh, maybe we should pass on this one today and do it another day.

Veronica: Yeah. I mean, of course I respect the fact that you could potentially like just not be in the mood. And I get that cause I've been through those times where like, I don't want to do a podcast, I don't want to do a video, I don't want to post, I just don't want to do any of it. And that's completely valid.

But when you started sharing a little bit with me about. particulars, particulars 

Rick: about 

Veronica: [00:02:00] details about details. Uh, yeah, exactly that. I said, well, you know what, I'm sure you're not the only one feeling that way. And I'm feeling very similarly to you in a different capacity. And why don't we just talk about it with our listeners rather than just skip the podcast this week and, you know, start next week.

Yeah, 

Rick: I thought it was a great idea. I kind of woke me out of my, you know, my, my funk a little bit and just made me realize like, yeah, it's important to talk about the good and the bad. And we talked a lot about the good on this podcast, which we're going to continue to do, but then we have to share like the other side.

And, you know, for me, just to completely open up to you. And we, I did a little bit this morning to really bring in where this is coming from. Mm hmm. It's just been a tough week in a sense that there's just been a lot of feeling of loneliness, right? So that was really the catalyst [00:03:00] to say, let's not do it.

We represented the child free connection that you don't have to be lonely, that we connect child free people. And I felt like, wait, how are we going to go on and do a podcast if we're the standing uplifting pillar for this for our community, right? And this has nothing to do with. regretting our decision, obviously, or anything like that.

But it's just this feeling of like, you know, some days it's okay to feel lonely and feel isolated and we don't have to go too deep into why we individually feel isolated. Um, but it's not because of lack of children. I'll say that it's because of other things that are external in our life. So it was just an interesting.

Moment for me to just experience that when I haven't felt like that in a while, or maybe I have felt like that, but I didn't, it didn't really come out. I mean, I got up at four in the morning, so I'm super like tired too. Yeah. And it was just kind of pouring out of me. 

Veronica: Yeah. And I think, and that's what we talked about a little bit this morning, that [00:04:00] sometimes we can feel so alone when we're there.

Surrounded by tons of people, uh, and we can feel equally alone. We're surrounded by no one. So I think that a lot of it, this feeling of being alone comes from within and sometimes there's nothing we can do about it. It's 

Rick: Interesting that we have a community and we can also feel alone, Luna. And I'm not talking about just the child free connection community.

I'm talking about also like our, our friends, 

Veronica: right, exactly. The people around us, family members, the people who surround us. And yeah. And thank you for saying that and clarifying, like it has nothing to do with just our community, um, that we love so much and we embrace, but it has to just do with, we're all connected.

Our surroundings or for you rather like your surroundings and the people around you and this isn't a new feeling for you This is a feeling that you tend to struggle [00:05:00] with but sometimes Uh, it comes in waves and sometimes, you know, you're down and up with it. So it's completely understandable, but thank you for coming on because I know that you were concerned about how do I express that I I'm alone when we Run a community of people on the whole point is not to be alone, but it's just the truth in its life that sometimes we can feel very alone, regardless of who were surrounded by.

Yeah. 

Rick: And I think you touched on it best when you said it's a lot of internal work, right? Because, yeah. You know, for me, it's been frustrating, you know, to share a little bit of it because I've done so much self work and it feels a lot of the times that when I was at my worst as a person drinking, you know, uh, career driven, very selfish in a lot of ways, not, not in debauchery, not intentionally selfish, but [00:06:00] selfish looking back on it.

Yeah, but then I didn't think I was, but you know, when I have put in so many years of work to see very little progress and I felt like when I was the opposite of a more adult like responsible person, when I was this in this old phase of mine, I felt as though my progress was so much better. And then it's like you put in all this hard work to change and become a healthier and better person and have, like, mental wellness and all this stuff to only find out that it feels like you're walking in mud sometimes, you know?

Veronica: Yeah, yeah. But I think that's also where it comes in to have, it's hard to be. Step outside of ourselves, right? Because like you just said, for example, like I've done so much work and I've, I've had no progress, but me looking on the outside in, I see [00:07:00] tremendous progress and I am so proud of all the work that you've done.

And it's quite obvious in the man that you've become. In the partner that you are in the friend that you are. So I think that when we're just so down on ourselves, it's impossible to see. And it feels really defeating and really deflating to be like, why am I even bothering trying to do all the things?

Cause I'm just spinning in wheel in a wheel and getting nowhere. When the truth is you are getting somewhere, but you're just like you said, you feel like you're in the mud and when you're trudging through mud, you're not really feeling like you're getting very far. So it takes like an outside perspective to be like, you're just in it right now.

Like you're just really in it. 

Rick: Yeah. And you know, true change it to, to see the upside of this true change is very hard and difficult. Yeah, so the fact that I'm having, I try to tell myself that the fact that I'm having a such tough [00:08:00] go at it means that I'm probably on the right track, you know, to change because it's not easy.

And You know, just speaking of alcohol, like I've been somewhat open on this podcast and on some of our videos that, you know, I was, I'm, I am an alcoholic. I, you know, I quit drinking almost five years ago, this coming May, uh, five years, alcohol free and. I heard on a podcast and it really resonated with me.

Alcohol wasn't the disease. It was being me was the disease and alcohol numbed it. So I was, I had a lot of issues and I was able to just mask that with the alcohol. I think a lot of blame gets put on the alcohol. It really is just an agent to, to, to take away and to deal with your internal work that you need to do to grow as a human being.

Yeah. And. I know that now, so as, as much as it. [00:09:00] I get depressed and I, and I, and like, or I get like, I feel isolated or alone, or I feel like I'm not making any progress. I always, I never come to think like, Oh, you know what? The alcohol is going to bring me back to where I need to be. Cause I realized now that it's only going to make it 10 times worse.

Especially being older and understanding. And what a disappointment I would have in myself to like, go back to that. And that's why I always say I'm very lucky because for me to stop drinking, it was very easy because I could foresee the outcome very clearly of where I was headed. And I bring only the alcohol part up because it is a big part of the reason why I'm going through this change because.

If I was still drinking, I wouldn't have been working on it, but because I eliminated that numbing agent, I was able to address it and start working on myself. 

Veronica: Yeah. And it also makes me think about the importance of when we feel down on ourselves and when we [00:10:00] feel like we're just kind of not moving forward and, and we're just not in a good place, how easy it can feel like, well, if I had that It would be different.

Or if, you know, for example, like, like you said, you understand yourself enough to know that if you started drinking again, it wouldn't be the answer. Right? But unfortunately, there's, you know, people who are not able to do that and who are not able to, you know, To look forward and look at the repercussions and then 

Rick: really, really 

Veronica: hard, right?

And it's also like stepping outside of yourself and realizing that this isn't going to magically fix things, right? And just for a second to bring it back to the podcast, I mean, I've heard from people and I've read so many. Articles about when people are in this phase, especially when they're our age and older, right?

Like over 50 [00:11:00] 60s and. People can sometimes, even 70s, feel like, well, if I had kids, I wouldn't be feeling this depression or I wouldn't be feeling this loneliness. And it's very similar to, well, if I was wealthy. Then I wouldn't be feeling this because I wouldn't be down on myself. I'd be able to go out more.

I'd be able to meet people. So we started to like cling on very tightly to these outside factors and these outside things. Beliefs that if only that, then I would be okay. The hard part, like you mentioned is there's really no outside factor that's going to fix us. Right. And there's really no outside factor that's necessarily going to make us feel better besides ourselves.

Rick: Yeah. It always comes back down to that, right? Because I mean, it's like you, you, when you get into [00:12:00] a desperate phase, it's fight or flight, you know, and the flight is what can I do to not look inward? You know, and, and, and what can I point to that's causing me this pain? Because God forbid, because again, it comes back to it.

It's not easy. And you know, it's coincidentally, it's the theme of our, um, and it wasn't planned, I don't want this to sound weird, but it is the theme of our community. It totally was not planned, but, um, the health and wellness is, is, is, um, the theme for this month in our community. It couldn't have come for a perfect time.

Selfishly for me because of, you know, what I'm going through and yeah, 

Veronica: at this point or at whatever point, you know, okay, going for a walk would make you feel better when you're down or eating a healthy meal would be better than eating something, you know, that's just going to spike your sugar levels or whatever, you know.

And sure, moving for [00:13:00] five minutes a day is probably going to make you feel better than like laying on the couch and crying and all these things. And we're also aware of what we're supposed to do or what we should do or what we need to do. But sometimes it's just freaking hard and you just can't. And I think that we all were talking about and we concluded like, Let's just try to support each other and help each other out, right?

And not have any shame. If you need to lay on the couch and cry, I, I remember I told them that I had done that recently for two days, like do that and don't feel any shame about it, but also why don't we try to be there for one another when. It's hard to remember that. Let's just go outside for 10 minutes because it's probably going to make ourselves feel better.

And that's why that whole conversation started. And that's why, um, we're excited about this month and just continuing to move the health and wellness, um, [00:14:00] initiative forward because we could all use the support. So yeah, it does make you think about. How hard or easy life can be. And that's what we wanted to focus on today.

Does being child free make life easy? And what exactly does that mean? Because people ask us a lot. We get this question quite a bit. And not just from people who are interested in the child free lifestyle, although child free choice. We get it from parents. We get it from men. We get it from women. We get it from couples like we just get is child free life easy So we definitely want to I know that it sounds like we started this like a negative So, but we're not gonna apologize for that because that's how we're feeling but Yeah, so we're gonna dive into that.

But before we do we did do something a little different Different this weekend. So I don't know if you want to bring that up because it was definitely 

Rick: so for us. So, so we went to see our very first NASCAR race in [00:15:00] Austin, Texas. Yes. Um, I've always wanted to go see NASCAR. NASCAR has always been very interesting to me in a sense of just like the culture.

Not necessarily about watching cars go around the track, but more of like, what did the, what's the culture like there? You know what I mean? Yeah. And it did not disappoint. No. 

Veronica: And it felt very, especially coming, you know, with two people who are from New York City. Like it just felt like such a Texas thing to do.

Yeah. And when we got invited, so our neighbors invited us, they had a box and we were, our neighbors are the sweetest. And, and we were like, yeah, absolutely. We'll go. And it was so fun. I mean, we had such a fun afternoon and like you said, it was really interesting to see the culture and how. Excited. People are how excited people are for their cars for their teams.

Uh, [00:16:00] yeah, it was just an overall really positive experience. It's 

Rick: a real sport to like. It was interesting to hear. There's so many rules that we didn't understand. We didn't even begin to grasp it. We're like a fish out of water in a sense. Yeah. Um, Didn't really dress the part, regret that. I feel like we could have, I should have worn a hat or so.

I don't know. I just felt a little bit like out of touch. Like I'm wearing like on cloud shoes and like, it's like, it just didn't feel right. I feel like I totally dressed wrong for this event. Um, so anyway, the point is, is that it was just, it was a lot of fun and I will warn anyone that goes bring earplugs because it, I've never been somewhere where there was so much.

Volume at such a long period of time, so consistently high volume 

Veronica: it is, and I bought you had your ear plugs. We didn't have time to get mine, so I decided just to get them there. So I got these cheapy ones once we got there, and this is just a problem that I have continuously in my life, which is the reason why [00:17:00] you're wearing air pods right now, and I'm not my ears.

Nothing fits in my ears and never has. This has been a problem since earbuds were invented. They just do not stay in my ear. Even when you can like switch the sizes, it's either too big or too small. So anyway, these just kept popping off my ears. Oh, I didn't even know that. It just kept popping off my ears.

It wasn't working. I didn't know what to do. So I just, I had my AirPods in my bag, so I just put my AirPods in and that worked cause I'm finally like at the point where, although my AirPods do pop off, they weren't popping off like every two seconds, like the, the earplugs I bought. So that was my solution for dealing with the noise.

And it was super, super loud, but. I mean, I just thought it was the coolest thing ever. We had great seats, obviously. We were like in this box. We were right in front of where they pit. [00:18:00] And it was so amazing to see that level of teamwork so 

Rick: close up. Yeah. And it was so much fun. And I urge everyone to Experience different types of events you would normally not go to.

Now, would I go back again? I probably would, you know, but I don't, I'm not going to be like, okay, I'm following NASCAR around the country. You know, I'm not like addicted to it. Um, but I would go back again. I thought it was a lot of fun, but again, just like, you know, back to the kind of the health and wellness thing, like get out there, get out in the world and do something that's different and have these experiences because it was just, it was, it was a great time.

Veronica: Yeah, and that's something that we talk about that we talk about in our community as well is that when you're living this child free life, sometimes you can get in a rut and not take advantage of opportunities, right? And Sometimes people confuse this with money and yeah, although obviously if you have [00:19:00] tons of money, you can just go jet setting and go somewhere.

Yes, we're all aware of that. Uh, but it also can just be around events that are free or things that come up that you're invited to because it's very easy. to say no and just to choose not to have an experience and not to do it. But we do encourage people to take advantage of child free life by trying new things, saying yes to things that maybe you're used to saying no to, and really soaking up some of the perks Can come along like being spontaneous.

For example, you and I are leaving tomorrow morning. We're going to drive to Fredericksburg, which is this cute little town. Um,

it's my birthday tomorrow and, uh, So just little things like that, right? That we can just have the ability to take this road trip. There's [00:20:00] beautiful wineries. I'm super excited about it's wildflower season. So, and there's just so many wildflowers right now and I just can't wait to see them and smell them and be around them.

There's just so many things I'm excited about. I think our Airbnb type. House cottage thing is adorable. Uh, and I can't wait to share it with the members of our community and, you know, just walk through our trip with them. 

Rick: Ending note on that is go out, experience cultures, but definitely Google dress code and make sure that you kind of fit in cause I didn't.

But maybe I need to Google like this town and make sure that I'm not coming in hot with like, uh, 

Veronica: You know, do you this makes me think of this is so funny because it's not the first time that's happened with you Do you remember? We might have talked about it on the podcast But maybe not when we when I took you up on our first Weekend getaway when we started dating we went up to Mohonk mountain house and [00:21:00] So we were going to do some hiking, some rock scrambling.

I had all these activities that I wanted to do. And we got there earlier than we thought and check in wasn't going to be for a little while. So before we even got to the town, we stopped at like a local diner in the main town. And this town looks like it's in the middle of nowhere. Like you can practically see the tumbleweed tumbling around.

And I remember we ordered our breakfast. And I'm looking at you and, and you don't do this as much as anymore. This is what it's, we're going to be together 10 years. So I guess 10 years ago, cause it was right when we started dating, I think it was like a few weeks, maybe a month after we started dating and I'm looking at you eating your breakfast and you must've been eating some sort of sandwich or something and you have all this jewelry on like you have.

These like onyx rings and you have all these, um, and you have all your bracelets and you have all your necklaces and you're wearing this like really [00:22:00] funky outfit and it just hit me and I'm like, did you, and I'm like, did you bring Like sweats or like, gee, like I was just so confused and I'm like, you didn't, I was like, you didn't really have to bring all your jewelry, but I really don't think that you understood where we were going, where we were saying what we were doing, 

Rick: but I think it was two things.

Yeah. I, you know, I don't say yes a lot until I met you. Right. I usually say no, my instinct to say no things, which was a huge mistake because I say yes all the times and I do things and they're fun. So I'm not, so I was out of my element again, like. You know, I'm living in Manhattan. I haven't left Manhattan in years.

I'm just like going to work and partying in Manhattan. 

Veronica: Literally, like you did not leave the borough. 

Rick: So one, I was unaware. I didn't have the self awareness to like, Oh, maybe I should dress for the occasion. And number two, I was trying to impress you still. So I was like, Ooh, the rings are cool. The bracelets are cool.

I'm gonna wear this stuff. She's gonna think I'm hot in the mountains. [00:23:00] And it's like, Yeah, it made me it was like the opposite. Yeah. As as everything that I tried to impress you with at the beginning, 

Veronica: it was like, but it was just so funny because I remember just look at you at all your jewelry. 

Rick: It was ridiculous.

It was like it was like my cousin Vinnie when he went to that small town to defend the case from New York City. That was that. That was that was me. Um, exactly. Exactly. Speaking of health and wellness, it just came in my mind. I wanted to bring this up to you. I actually do have yeah. A question and I didn't know how to react and I don't know if I reacted quick.

So I was in the gym, I was working out in the middle of my exercise and it looked like a 12 year old kid came into the gym with their mom and they, you know, we're starting to do their thing. And the kid got off the treadmill next to his mom and came over and started lifting weights where I was lifting and it was just me and him in the gym.

Mm hmm. Now I was using a particular work station, a gym workstation, [00:24:00] and I had my towel on the bar and I'm right next to it doing something else and about to go back to that workstation, workout station. And he walks over and he takes my towel and he snaps it off of the machine and throws it on the ground.

Okay. And I'm looking at it. And little baby Rick gets upset and I walk over and I kind of like pick up the towel and I start like, you know, dusting it off like you threw my sweaty towel on the ground. And now I'm going to make you feel now I have earplugs in. I think he turned to me and said something, but I kind of was.

I was in a bad mood and I walked away. Right, right. And then I'm working out and I could see he's kind of looking over like, Oh my gosh, I should have probably not done that. And I feel bad. So the question is when it comes to people and when it comes to kids in like 12, maybe it was 13. I don't even think he was 13.

I think it was like 12. [00:25:00] Yeah. Like how much leeway do we give them for. Obnoxious. Things like that. Obnoxious behavior. Obnoxious 

Veronica: behavior. Yeah. I mean, I would be super annoyed if someone did that with my stuff as well. Did the mom, was the mom aware or was she just doing one thing? She was, she was she unaware?

Rick: One thing she 

Veronica: was unaware. I don't know. That's kind of a weird situation. Yes. I would have been annoyed if someone grabbed my towel and threw it on the floor for sure. 

Rick: Yeah. It's weird because I know like as a, as when I was that age Yeah. If, if an adult came up to me and said something, I would be.

Horrify. Thank you for making me feel less guilty. I appreciate it. But now I want to check in with you. How have you been doing? 

Veronica: Yeah, I mean, like we talked about in the beginning, things have been not easy, right? Which is what we're talking about today is child free life. Easy. We recently found out that my mom has We don't know yet if it's dementia or Alzheimer's and [00:26:00] we're just sort of in the depthness of that.

I think this is the first time I've said it without crying. Yeah, it's been hard to get the news and to deal with it. What was really happening was that it was affecting me so greatly that it was like just pouring out into every aspect of my life. including my relationship with you because I was just so stressed out.

I have been so stressed out and so depressed and so anxious about it that it's been hard to manage my feelings and my emotion and my behavior. And I did apologize to you last week because I felt that maybe I had been Been a little like snippy or snappy with you and just sort of angry at maybe things that I didn't need to be so angry about.

I mean, it was just hard news to process. Um, I've been [00:27:00] processing it. One thing that I'm getting out of this whole thing with my mom is The, you know, people say like, Oh, you have to express gratitude, be grateful for what you have. And, you know, I think you and I do a good job with that. We really try to work on gratitude.

We've talked about it here on the podcast. We talk about it with each other and then sometimes it just slips away, but this has like really enforced me, forced me actually to think about gratitude and to think about being grateful for things such as. Remembering that I, you know, took my medication or took a pill and then, you know, and then remembering that I did that something as simple as that, that we don't think about how, how important that is and how valuable it is and how much it affects our daily lives to know and be aware of what we're doing and to be aware of our surroundings.

And so I'm just [00:28:00] trying to practice some sense of gratitude in this. 

Rick: It's how you, it's how you handle it and not to forget about you. One of our community members said that, like, don't forget about taking care of yourself because 

Veronica: she did say that. And it definitely resonated with me 

Rick: as a giving person.

You do put other people first and. I've noticed that since the first day I met you and it's a great trait, but it can't be all encompassing, you know, yeah, I've personally witnessed and seen you working through it. So I'm really proud of you. I know it's hard and, um, yeah, man, you know, listen, life is not always easy.

Whether you have kids or you don't have kids 

Veronica: downers. today, but we don't 

Rick: know what 99. 9 percent of our podcasts are going to be happy and celebrated. It's okay. We come on here and we have to be our true authentic selves, as we always say. So 

Veronica: back to our main, sorry, I cut you off. No, no, no. Go ahead. No. So, so back to, cause I really do want to ask, answer this question.

There's a difference [00:29:00] between. Life is easy, and life is happy. And I think that those two things get interwoven together and get jumbled up. Is life for us easy? And I'm just talking for the two of us and maybe even for myself. No. Is life easier because we don't have children? In my opinion, for us, hell yes.

Hell yes. I absolutely feel that way. Now it doesn't mean that we're automatically in happy mode. We're just on that happy switch and things are going to be fantastic because we do that, we do get that question too. Are we happy all the time, which like blows my mind that the question even comes, but no, in my opinion, it's a lot easier because I do have the time to deal with.

All the challenges [00:30:00] that come our way and I have The tools and I can work on myself and I can sit there and like I said I can cry on the couch for two days and I can go get reiki and I can do yoga and I can do Breath work and I can go away on a retreat and I could Get a therapist and just do all the things.

So for me personally, hell yes, it's easier. How do 

Rick: you feel? I really like how you divided it into Child free life being easy versus child free life being happy. I'm completely on board with what you said. For us, is life easier because we don't have children? 1000%. I mean, it 

Veronica: is. I think that. The real distinction is that when you choose this child free life wholeheartedly, and you are living and walking down this path with joy and with [00:31:00] confidence and with fulfillment, it is, and with zero regrets, by the way, it is going to equal a happy life for us, right?

Because it just, is what we really were meant to do and 

Rick: be. Why do you think that we get a lot of, you know, Oh, your life must be so easy because you don't have kids. Cause I think that a lot of people are confused by that statement. 

Veronica: And I, um, thank you for asking. 

Rick: Did I set that up nicely for you? 

Veronica: I wanted to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, which I totally would have forgotten to say if you didn't ask me that. So. I mean, the reason is obvious. The reason is social media. People are continuously posting about their chat setting, they're traveling, they're having fun, they're drinking champagne, they're on a boat, they're [00:32:00] napping, they're doing whatever they want every day.

I'm spending the whole day, whatever. So this. Story, right? And this narrative has been fed to people who potentially do not know any child free people and who only believe, and the reason I'm saying this is because we get these types of comments and emails all the time. That this is all that there is right and I'm not knocking that at all because I think that those things should be celebrated and we talk about it here all the time like we should be celebrating those moments if those moments really truly exist for us, which they do.

As child free people, the reason we're getting that life is easy or it's presumably always happy, you're not posting packing your bag because you have to take care of a family member that's dying from cancer, right? I've been off of social [00:33:00] media for the last two weeks just because I've been dealing with my mom and I just really haven't wanted to go on there.

Because I'm just trying to get through my emotions right now. So I'm not posting that I'm dealing with a mother who had mental disorders already and now has this on top and just, you know, what is it? Me trying to fly out there and Just the difficulties every day. We have another member of our community that her mom has Parkinson's and she literally has to move her mom from one state to another, and it's been so hard.

And does these moments are not being captured. So this is why, in my opinion, we get these questions. And this is why, in my opinion, people just assume that we're all just hammocking in between trees and Bali. And that that's all there is. And it's important to have these conversations because when young people come to us and say, [00:34:00] like, it looks amazing.

I can't wait to live my life like this. I always say like, that's great, but just know this does not automatically equal joy. Right? You're still going to live life, you're just choosing a different path, but it's not a guarantee of pure bliss because you're used to seeing someone, you know, having champagne on the deck of a boat.

So I think that the lifestyle gets so misconstrued that it can be really easily misunderstood. Does that answer your question? It 

Rick: does. I just got hung up on hammocking in Bali and how great that sounds, which, 

Veronica: by the way, I would like to do very 

Rick: shortly. But, you know, I was going to say it also works the other way, right?

If you're looking at all these mothers, I Having all these joyous moments with their children and all the beauty that goes with it. Yes. You just think like, Oh, that [00:35:00] must be the answer. Like, look how happy they are. You know, I think what we're unearthing here is the fact that there's so much influence and 

Veronica: that it's not, and it's not real 

Rick: and it's not.

I mean, we just 

Veronica: did it to ourselves. Like we almost didn't do this podcast because we're both just on the struggle bus right now. And we were like, well, we should, I don't know. We're really down. So hopefully if people are still listening, uh, yeah, they're seeing like, we're just, you know, this is what it's all about, right?

The highs, the lows, the middles, and just the journey in itself. We're just here to continue celebrating it, continue supporting each other, continue being there for one another. And that's just the best that we can do. 

Rick: Yeah. I'm dating myself here, but you remember, and they might still do this, but on like people magazine or us magazine, they're like stars.

They're just like us. And it's just like carrying groceries and doing all this stuff. They should have a one that says child free [00:36:00] people. They're just like us. And it's just the same. Same type of thing. It's like, cause it's like, we're like this 

Veronica: whole like, yeah, 

Rick: because, you know, having kids is so mainstream and it's just like child free people are not, you know, and, and it's like, right.

Veronica: I think the thing is, it's not even that I think it's just become so normalized. But the thing is that the narrative that has been normalized is the one that I just explained before. So it is shifting the idea of what living a child free life is like. And it's these people that have these very strong opinions are.

Are creating their opinions based on what they're seeing on social media, not because they actually know someone who's not, not because they know someone who's living the choppy life. Yeah, 

Rick: no, I get it. Well, I'll tell you that, you know, I went from starting this podcast, not in a great place. And it's, this has been very therapeutic for me.

I hope it's been therapeutic for people that are listening or watching. [00:37:00] But to sum it up for us, The good news is, is that child free life is easier. Yes. And I think for most people, you know, just because of simple logistics of responsibilities that are in your life that you have to deal with. Yeah. So there it is.

We are, um, Headed out for your birthday tomorrow. We're very excited about that. We can talk about that on the next podcast. Um, I feel a lot better and, um, yeah, thank you for breathing life back into my day as we did this one early too. We usually do early, so 

Veronica: yeah, we'll see him here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Rick: So we'll see you next time and, uh, talk soon. Bye.