Transcript

Veronica: [00:00:00] Rick and I will be back next time, but stick with me today because 

Veronica: I have a very special bonus episode of Is Child Free For Me, where my program graduates share their personal story of how they found peace and confidence with the child free choice. Today, you will meet Delilah. 

Veronica:Do you ever feel  goalposts when it comes to having kids?

For example, you may think, I'll have kids once I'm financially secure. Or when I meet the one, or once I'm done traveling the world. And then you find yourself at that exact moment, only to find a new reason to push back. Delilah was doing exactly that. And 

Veronica: wait till you hear the crazy marker she ended up setting.

setting for herself. It's actually the craziest marker I've ever heard. Delilah shares how she joined my program is child free for me because she no longer wanted to sit with the feelings of shame and guilt of [00:01:00] making this life altering decision and how sterilization surgery started to become an option.

ruminating about this decision or perhaps pushing the goal as well, you will be inspired by Delilah's decision. To take control of her life.

Delilah, how are you? I'm good, Veronica. 

Veronica: Good. It's such a pleasure to have you here. I mean, it's been such an amazing experience getting to know you, getting to know your story and just for the people watching or listening, 

Delilah: you are a 

Veronica: grad of my program, it's taught me for me. And now you are in, um, our global membership community and an active member there as well.

Delilah: So welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to share my story. Yeah, absolutely. 

Veronica: So tell me. First, what motivated you initially to book the call [00:02:00] with me and to say to yourself, maybe I need support or not. Maybe that's not what you said to yourself. I don't know what your motivation 

Delilah: was. Yeah. Um, the fact that I've been in different spaces trying to find an answer.

And, uh, I had been on like child free Reddit. Um, I follow a few, a child free, uh, people on YouTube. And when I had come across Child Free Connection and your channel, I actually watched, uh, another member, Charlotte, and she had an interview with you. And the way that she kind of described where she was when she started was so similar to how I was feeling.

Just a lot of confusion. a lot of self doubt, uh, looking for an answer outside of myself and to see her speak with you and just have a lot of clarity. I think what was really powerful about hearing that story with you and her was how it didn't [00:03:00] come from a place of this choice is better than that choice.

It was very neutral and very like, this is right for me. Uh, I honor what parents are going through. But it's not the right decision for me. And so I really appreciated that it didn't come from a place of like shunning the other, but I just loved how compassionate, um, that conversation was for all parties involved.

And I was like, wow, this feels very temperance feels very like peaceful. Um, so I got more curious and then I, It's so funny, Delilah, because 

Veronica: I had no idea. I had no idea that that's why you, that that's what motivated you to book the call, because I don't think that we talked about it when we had the first chat.

But that is so meaningful to me. That is like just the connection that we all have, right? Like I said, As soon as someone's telling their story of like what's in their heart and their mind and what's been ruminating in there, you just [00:04:00] feel almost immediately validated, right? Like I'm not the only one going through this, right?

Like just to hear these stories alone. Thank you for sharing that because I didn't know that. So that's awesome. I'm so happy. Yeah. I do agree with you. I think that sometimes it comes across, especially when you're going through this experience, You get so cornered into making this, making a decision, it becomes like the wrong one or 

Delilah: the right one, very black and white thinking, all or nothing thinking, and 

Veronica: it's not anywhere where we should be, and that's the part that I really resonate with, and that's the part that really Calls to me because it's so important for women to realize because I know I've been there before between the right and wrong To know that there is no right or wrong.

It's what's right for 

Delilah: us, right? Yeah, and you were very 

Veronica: much in a very unique situation when we had our call. So tell us Where you were specifically as far as having kids and not having kids and what was this pivotal moment [00:05:00] that was right down the road for 

Delilah: you? Yeah, so my husband and I, uh, have been married for, uh, nine years this December.

And we had never really had deep desire to have children. It was always something like That was supposed to happen, that we were just waiting for the right time. That's a pretty common narrative. And over the last, I want to say, three, four years, it came into our awareness that, uh, being child free was an option.

Who came to that awareness first? Me. And then bringing it up to, to my husband. And Him realizing like, yeah, honestly, it's funny. I'll just say like, his personality is like, I'm down. Right. Like, yeah, he was like, if it happens, I know I'm going to step up to the plate, do what I do. And he's just so amazing in that way.

But when we really sat down and talked about it, we didn't have a desire. And [00:06:00] so as we were exploring what this. Choice would look like we were met with a lot of resistance and a lot of shame and a lot of guilt and we're not family Strangers that was really odd. Yeah, and we we didn't understand where that was coming from and it made us feel very Ostracized very alienated.

So at this point, 

Veronica: are you sharing with people that? You have decided to be child free or you just sharing that you're it's on the consideration 

Delilah: and Consideration is like testing the waters 

Veronica: that it's under consideration 

Delilah: with a lot 

Veronica: of getting that that pushback, which is so interesting, right? It's almost like, we can't even have that time and space to have that thought process.

Like, that's not even. Okay. Right. Okay. 

Delilah: Okay. Yeah, a distinct memory was, uh, 1 covid started, you know, dying down a little bit and we could start seeing family. My husband and I [00:07:00] hosted like a, we call it shell shock. It's like the boiling crab experience. So we, we hosted like a bunch of family, um, over like laid out the, the newspaper all over the table and just, you know, had a little feast.

Then, you know, I came up like, Oh, like, when are you guys going to have kids? You guys have this house. And I was like, you know, we might not want children. And then came a split second that I could have this. Sentence and then it became, Oh, I thought that way when I was your age and da, da, da, da, da, like it was just, I'm just like, what just happened?

Like starts. Right. Right. And I'm just like, okay, so here's me again, not saying it definitively and it's met with pushback. So that only made me more scared to solidify this, the decision. And luckily I do have one, um, I want to say cousin in law. He was like, yeah, like, what is your stance on it? I was like, I don't know.

Everybody wants us to have kids. And then he goes, but what do you want? [00:08:00] It matters what you want. And so I'm really thankful for this family member for saying that, because again, within all the darts, I get like one, like lifeline, right? So yes, yes, that is. So people 

Veronica: just don't even know how much that means to be asked that question.

What do you want? It's so powerful, especially during that time when you're just trying to figure out this, the biggest decision in your life. And you know, it's interesting that you say about the house thing because I get that so much from members of the community. Like just the second they get a house, it's even more like, why 

Delilah: would you want a house?

If you're not 

Veronica: going to have children,

it's 

Delilah: just so strange. 

Veronica: What are you going to do with that? Right? Like, what are you going to do with the house? And it's funny cause we actually did a reel on this, um, one time. And I mean, people, I was crying, like laughing, 

Delilah: but people were like, I have like a room where my 

Veronica: cats hang [00:09:00] out, you know, like I have a sewing room.

We have a breathing and meditation 

Delilah: room. I'm in a yoga room right now. Yeah, like there's so much to do, 

Veronica: but it's be, it's like beyond people's comprehension that what can this space be used for rather 

Delilah: than children. I used to commute on a motorcycle for like years and then finally was like, you know what, I'm ready for a car.

And so it was like a Honda CRV that we got immediately. It was like, Oh, Oh my God. Is it time? Are you guys going to have kids? Just like, no. We want to go snowboarding and like drive to Disneyland. I don't know what to tell you. I know what you 

Veronica: mean. And I know what you mean. Okay. So now you're in a city.

you and your husband have presented the idea that maybe this is something that we're not going to do. Besides that one family member, your family's at this point thinking they don't know what they're talking about, they're too young or whatever. So what happened after that? Like what [00:10:00] started? Happening with, with you, with your relationship, like, how, how are we going 

Delilah: to handle this?

I did have a roommate when we had bought the house, uh, we had a roommate and he had a daughter and so she would come and stay with us every other weekend. And so I had a lot of, she was, uh, seven and she moved, they moved out when she was nine. It was a really great experience for me to see what it would be like to have a kid in the house.

And the more I, like, did, like, really amazing, fun activities with her, I realized after she left, I hated the, the, the, the cleanup portion of, like, all of our baking and all of our painting. Like, I got to be, like, fun on Delilah, right? And then afterwards, I'm like, oh my god, there's so much cleanup to do. So much.

And so we had like experiences like that where like there's something about the peace and quiet after the the storm that we Really prefer. It was almost like this guilt that we felt about saying that out loud. Yeah, and [00:11:00] owning that So again, I'm you know in these different communities. I'm listening different things and I'm in a way Trying to understand my decision, like no one was reflecting back that it was okay.

Growing up, I didn't have a lot of people that could mirror my experience. And so that was something that was missing. And so I think I was looking outside of myself to, to find people who understood my experience and talk to them about it. I had initially wanted to get a bilateral sopendectomy. In 2022, I booked it.

Before we go 

Veronica: on, can you just explain what that is for people who may not know? So a bilateral 

Delilah: sopendectomy is a form of sterilization. Both fallopian tubes are removed and removes the possibility of pregnancy. That was how much my husband and I Wanted the child free choice is this awareness of how birth control has affected me in the past.

There was a part of me that didn't [00:12:00] want to leave it to chance of getting pregnant and then having to make that decision. And what if I, I didn't want to, and so. I sought out this surgery as a form of prevention, but then 

Veronica: how did your husband feel about it 

Delilah: at the time? He was very supportive. Like my husband's like very supportive.

His child free journey is very interesting to coming to his realization. I guess I could say about mine is it was a lot more intense as a woman. Oh, like, you know, in a, in a. What the shame and the guilt that I get, or sorry, that he gets, I get it like 10, a hundred times fold. It is very 

Veronica: different. It is very different.

And it's, it's nowhere near as intense as I have personally experienced. And I have personally come across compared to the 

Delilah: partner or the woman. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was. [00:13:00] interesting that he could decide and then just be all right. I think he's had maybe a handful of bingos, and for those who don't know, um, child free bingos are the things that people say to those who make the child free decision, but it's so common That you could fill a bingo card and get bingo.

You'll change your mind later. Who's going to take care of you when you're older. Yeah. All of it. So these are the things on the bingo card. Where you're making a huge 

Veronica: mistake or a selfish decision of your life. Yeah. You're selfish. Makes sense. Because all you do is care about yourself. Yeah. 

Delilah: Yeah. Yeah. So he would get a handful of them, but it never took him to this very emotionally intense place as it would take me.

I would say his decision was quite linear and mine was like [00:14:00] getting lost in the wilderness. 

Veronica: Absolutely. But I do love hearing Delilah that from what I'm hearing, it was still a process, 

Delilah: right, whether it was linear or whether it 

Veronica: was, you know, really complicated or what it was that you were both coming to an individual decision so that you can come to a decision as a 

Delilah: couple.

Correct. That 

Veronica: isn't something that all couples do, because oftentimes, I mean, so many different scenarios happen, but sometimes it's a lot of like, well, it's up to you. So I love the idea of 

Delilah: that. You both took that route. Yeah. Like we had to, right. And it was a decision that we both had to agree to on our own terms.

It couldn't be something that I wanted and he didn't because, you know, that compromise would eventually down the road lead to resentment, right? Like we need to be on the same page and accept each other where we're [00:15:00] at. I feel like very lucky. Were 

Veronica: you, were both of you able to have this conversation before getting married Like, what was that 

Delilah: conversation like?

When we got married, it was always just like, Yeah, you're supposed to have kids. Like, no ifs, ands, or buts. That's just the journey. So when we got married, it was a conversation about, Hey, I grew up where my mom and dad couldn't take care of me. And so, Uh, they would work, and, uh, my grandmother would take care of me and all my cousins, and, you know, my parents would give her money for food and groceries, and they worked up until I was 11, uh, until they could afford to buy a house, and that's when I finally, like, lived.

and was parented by my parents. And so I let my husband know when we were getting married that, you know, I don't want kids until we have a house, we're financially stable, all the things, because I got a front row seat to what it was like to not have those things prepared. [00:16:00] I, identify as an adult child. So I am 31, but oftentimes I have emotional triggers that bring me right back to when I experienced it as a child.

And so I'm working on healing, recovering that. I'm glad that I had that conversation with my husband and he was on board. He was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Like, you know, he also witnessed his parents struggle. And so. Our ideal situation to have a child was have a home and financially stable before we even, like, have kids.

Consider we got married at 22 and 23. That's a very mature conversation 

Veronica: for a 22 and 23 year old. Yeah, very much to understand that. First of all, to just listen to each other's stories and be, um, You know, so open to your experience and his experience and to both of you to know, like, it just makes sense.

And it's smart to do it this way. Um, very mature. 

Delilah: Yes. What happened after was we just [00:17:00] worked really hard trying to figure out our careers, who we are, self discovery, all the things. And then we would get hit with, so what are the kids coming? So when are the kids coming? So when are the kids coming? Because now we're married.

We were honest. We were like, Oh, like not until we buy a house or not until like we're financially stable and we'll say these things, right? I guess. That makes sense. Why keep it off. Right. So as we, we got to a really great place financially in our careers and our business, and then we bought the house then came like, Oh, so when are the kids coming?

And then I said, I would really like to be in a place where I could be a stay at home mom and be able to. do all the things. Take them to dance class, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. Again, these were all ideals. Right? Then we got to that place where, um, my husband's business took off. I was helping him on the back end.

Technically I didn't have to clock into a nine to five anymore. Then I didn't have an excuse, [00:18:00] literally 

Veronica: visualizing you moving the goalposts down the field, 

Delilah: right? So I think it's what a lot of people do. And so I ran out of. Excuses. Then this is where it was hilarious because then I said, Oh, not until Nico and I end up on the amazing race and win the amazing race.

Like, I was like, we're not having children until I get on the kids until then. So then I like paused. And then I was like, wait, Why did I just move the goalposts to like an astronomical like cosmic place? And it made me stop. That was the amazing race. 

Veronica: It made me laugh the first time I heard it because I'm like, that is unique and 

Delilah: special.

And also like, Very abstract, like [00:19:00] no longer like a practical, tangible, like goalposts. 

Veronica: It was like, because it's like, first of all, you have to be casted. Like, when is the casting? Are you going to be? It could be tomorrow. It could be 10 years from now. I don't know, but leave us alone because until we're on that show, it's not happening.

Delilah: Right. And I would tell people this, I was like, not until we get on the amazing race. And I think, um, it's funny because the amazing race kind of encompasses our love for travel. So it's almost like this idea that we got to go to all these countries and then have children. Um, and also what was hilarious is I'm Canadian, so I have a Canadian passport.

So theoretically, I'm not, I can't even apply for the amazing races in the U. S. So there's even more like things in the way. So anyway, after saying this for like a good year and a half, I was like, wait, why did I, why did I move it so far away? And make it so, like, vague and abstract. Like, do we even want to [00:20:00] have children?

Because, like, everything we set out to do in order to have children, we met those expectations. And yet, it just, it was flat, is like the best way for me to describe it. Yeah. I 

Veronica: understand what you mean. Yeah, for sure. As far as like, let me do all these things that seem 

Delilah: amazing. First. Yeah. And also the fact that I hit that point when I said, crap, I ran out of excuses for why we don't have children.

Like that should have been a huge sign, like a huge, like, do you even want this? Because I'm coming up with reasons where people get off my back. And I think part of why I, like, joined your program was I was like, I need to stop running away from this decision and stop running away from the deep truth that, like, exists inside me.

It's almost like I am acting in this, like, very polite way to, like, not hurt anyone's feelings. 

Veronica: [00:21:00] Right, exactly. Because if you were to speak your truth at that time, then you know already what the repercussions are going to be. You know exactly which friend, which member of the family, how they're going to react and what they're going to say.

So it's really our way of protecting ourselves, right? We're also protecting ourselves from all, anything that can come from really making this big announcement of like, this is definite. So tell me what you thought about the idea of entering something where you can. Dive into this exploration phase, and then also meet strangers who are, you know, dealing with the roller coaster and the journey as well.

Tell me what that experience was like for you, because I know that it can feel a little bit strange. Like, I'm not sure what I'm getting myself 

Delilah: into here. My husband and I are from our childhood. Stuff are, uh, doing a lot of healing, um, therapy, different modalities, and part of our journey is [00:22:00] reparenting ourselves.

And so there's a sheet that's like about feelings, needs, um, and it says universal human needs and under intimacy, there's sharing connection. companionship, support, and cooperation. And I didn't realize that with this decision, those were the things that I needed. I needed a safe place to kind of unpack these very against the green thoughts that I was having.

I needed a space where I can share my experience and feelings and not be invalidated, not be bingoed. Um, part of my journey has been to learn how to trust myself. That's really hard to do when anytime I, like, say two sentences, it's like, no, you're wrong. That's not, that might not be what they're saying, but that's the message I'm receiving.

Choosing to do, um, the program was just like, you know what? I need support, and that's the one thing that [00:23:00] I haven't gotten. On my own, and I think with my husband, like, I'll, you know, share what I'm feeling, but it's very difficult for him to understand as a man. It is, 

Veronica: and it also becomes as loving and as supportive as a partner can be.

Almost feels like, um, Like you're burning, burdening them a little bit, like, it's almost like they know they've heard it, but like, you need to like, talk about it more, right? Right. It's almost like, you know, you'll start to be like, they're thinking, like, how much more does this need? Do we die? Do we need to dive into this?

How do you think you came to the idea that support would be helpful in this? Because I think a lot of women that Are in the shoes that we were in just really think I'm just going to have to figure this out at some point, 

Delilah: but that 

Veronica: point doesn't necessarily happen the way that you imagine it's going to happen.

[00:24:00] Right? Like, you're just going to figure it out one day. It's all going to come together or it's going to go away. I think a lot of people also think like, this will just go away and I'll have some clarity around something, but the idea of saying to yourself, like, Hey, I need support. I need support. Like, what point is that, do you think?

Delilah: For me, it was realizing that the antidote to shame is sharing. And I was feeling a lot of shame within myself about this decision. Because society is telling me that something is inherently wrong with me. A part of me knew that that wasn't true because there are people who have done amazing things and have beautiful, meaningful lives, um, who didn't have children.

So, so that's confusing. And I have a history of addiction, so I'm in 12 step recovery, and being in community is [00:25:00] what is healing for me. Having someone, again, mirror back your reality is really important. So for me to just come into the Child Free From Me community and be able to say, you know, I'm exploring this book about regretting motherhood, and I'm Fascinated by the fact that, you know, no one talks about this openly and that here's a safe container to talk about it openly, you know, with my husband, he knows my journey as much as he can hold space for it.

It's different with other women because there's this like resonance and understanding. Yeah, that, like, I didn't really particularly get with my partner. That's the best way for me to describe it. I'm 

Veronica: the same like you as far as community, because I know your community, like those different things that you do.

And I feel the same way. I feel community to be very healing for me. I love to feel like I'm a part of something. I [00:26:00] love to support others and receive it. Right? Like, I love that it can go either way at any time. It's, it is really healing and it is so positive and it feels so good. 

Delilah: So, yeah. Right. And you're holding a very safe container for that.

The fact that I learned in my recovery, isolation is not good for us, right? So if I'm isolated with these thoughts and these feelings and I have Nowhere for them to be worked through and processed. I stay in that, right? And so I think I was just ready and I had enough understanding of like, Oh, I'm feeling shame.

I'm feeling guilt. And these are very uncomfortable feelings to sit with knowing like, okay. Uh, when I hear like a YouTube video of some professor guy is just like, if you don't have children, you're going to regret it. And or like something's wrong with you or you're lazy, like those messages make me feel shame.[00:27:00] 

And so for me to say like, okay, I feel shame. And again, I learned from Brene Brown, the antidote to that is sharing and like releasing it and having it be heard. 

Veronica: And I don't think that I think that sometimes people think because of those words can like cut into your soul when someone says that. Things like that.

I think that the narrative is that it's, it's cutting into our souls because either a it's true or we don't want to come to the realization or admit that we are selfish after all, or just all these different perceptions of how that transfer of messages really hits us. We talk about shame a lot. I feel like in the program, because it comes up.

Very, it could be very sneaky to shame can just kind of crawl into your into who you are and call it call into your thoughts. And you're not even really aware that it's the shame. That's, you know, the puppeteer of your right sometimes, right? Like [00:28:00] you have so much awareness of it, but not everybody 

Delilah: does.

Right? Yeah, I think that, uh, yeah. The shame, it came from me not knowing how to trust myself. I grew up with society always telling me what to do or my parents always telling me what to do. Like, so where do we learn as humans to trust our own authority? So here I was trying to experiment with trusting My authority and what I want you down.

And I just kept meeting that with shame. And so I could do two things, give into that shame and have a child, even though I didn't want one, or. I could find healing in a space where I could trust myself. 

Veronica: Yeah. I mean, it's so huge. I mean, I love that you had those two choices. What I see a lot with women your age is that they also feel like, well, I'm young and this is either going to magically go away or [00:29:00] it's going to, um, you know, one day it's just going to all come together in my head and I'm going to figure this all out.

But I love that you didn't even put that in your options. It was either continue or deal with it now. Right? Like you weren't even like putting it in the, like, let me deal with it later in life as I'm older, you were like 

Delilah: now. Right. Right. And 

Veronica: I love that about you because you came into the program very assertive and like, I'm here to figure this out, you know what I mean?

Like, I am, I am taking action. I'm taking responsibility for my life. Right. I'm taking responsibility for this choice. Like, I'm doing this. And it was so like your energy was so So there, and I love that about you because you were like, you know, intentionally present in that space. 

Delilah: Here's the thing that I really enjoyed about your program.

It was not to convince us to be child free. It was like, let's figure out what you're. [00:30:00] true as deepest desire is in a safe place where you can explore this other path, right? Because in society, we're not even allowed to touch that. And then in this container, we can explore both sides. And so I feel like I'm a very balanced person.

So I, personally didn't like that I only saw the good and romanticized version of parenthood when behind closed doors, you know, even having that roommate, I could see that there was so much that could happen and could go wrong. And again, I'm not trying to be pessimistic. I'm trying to be realistic of like, right.

I go into this. Yeah, right. I just want to know, like, like, imagine me as a judge. I just want to know what a case for both sides. And then I'll make a decision out there in the world. I'm making a completely biased decision because I'm only presented with one side of the case. 

Veronica: Yeah. Yeah. And that was huge for me to like, when I came to that realization [00:31:00] that you're saying was huge for me because I almost felt, um, slighted that wasn't shown, like, here's this path and it could be so good for some people and maybe you're one of them.

So I understand what you're saying. I appreciate that you were able to see that because again, it's not about right or wrong. And I think that's what makes me crazy when it starts to get divisive, right? Um, and when, you know, parents and non parents start to have conflict and the situation because deep down it has nothing to do with 

Delilah: that at all.

This program helped me understand that if it, if I were just in a vacuum and it would just me and nobody else's opinion mattered, what do I want? And I didn't want children. The only seeds of possibility of wanting children were not from me. And so that just shows that I was trying to please the world and [00:32:00] please society and please family Instead of making a decision that was right for me.

And so It was so empowering Yeah Really do because it's just so 

Veronica: huge like to 

Delilah: be able to like feel that way, right? Completely just soak in 

Veronica: it, right? Like it just feels amazing. And it feels for me, amazing to see all of you go through that transformation. 

Delilah: Um, 

Veronica: it's really beautiful to witness. Um, I would love to hear how you feel now about now that you're post surgery and you have moved from the program to the membership community.

And like, how is 

Delilah: Delilah today? I got so much support leading up to my surgery. And again, this program was exactly what I needed to just feel really good. good about this decision that I was making for myself and my body and my future. It was just so lovely to have that support and when I did get my surgery, it was like so [00:33:00] magical.

Like, I never would have thought I would feel that happy going into like an operating room. Um, and. Yeah. Again, Veronica, your text of support to me like that day was just, I was crying so much happiness out that the nurse was like, Oh my God, are you okay? Are you nervous? Like, no, I'm just so happy right now.

I've been wanting this for so long and also had this moment of revelation that I'm made a decision for myself and my body that none of my ancestors did. This wasn't available to them. Right? Like, again, having kids was just you, it wasn't a choice. Um, so that was very powerful. And it's still 

Veronica: not a choice in some places.

Delilah: Exactly. Right? Like it's just so, yeah. And so just knowing what a privilege that is. Also, uh, as I was being like, I was in, like, the little bed, and they, [00:34:00] like, rolled me into the operating room, and it, like, opens, and I'm just like, It looks just like Grey's Anatomy in here! And then the sur my surgeon and, like, the whole team start, like, bursting out in laughter.

They're like, Oh my god, who's your favorite character? And I'm like, Christina Yang, she's our child free queen. And they're like, but she left and I was like, but she's still my child free queen. And it made sense for like, what I was like, about to go get, right? And so. Um, afterwards, again, it felt really beautiful to be celebrated and just for you guys to, you know, check up on me and, and just see that you're like, Oh, Delilah is all good.

And that was so lovely because the child free choice, I think a lot of what goes missing is the celebrations and the milestones, because I had to accept that, um, my surgery is in a way, never going to be celebrated the same way as a baby [00:35:00] shower. Right. Right. And so, and that's okay. I, I can be okay with that.

But celebration and connection is like a universal need. Um, so having you guys support me in that was so wonderful. Overall, all the like, Stress, figuring out like, oh, what am I going to do with my life and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just the decision is, is made. And it's, it was made from a place of love and compassion and understanding of myself.

That, again, any time I, I, Let's say someone wants to say anything. It doesn't affect me. It's like the fact that I got to build so much resilience towards pronatalism, towards shame, towards guilt. Like Child Free For Me helped me just Be so rooted in [00:36:00] who I am and what I want, and that I'm not selfish for making this decision.

I'm not a bad person for making this decision. It doesn't make me, like, lesser of a human, um, or broken. That I'm whole just as I am, and women are whole just as they are, whether they choose to have a child or not. You know, we all have inherent value. Yes. So like, 

Veronica: like just hearing those words.

Delilah: Right. Um, the, the chaos that I was in, I didn't want to bypass it. What's. I really enjoyed about your exploration was we weren't again, bypassing any of it where we're like going through it and we're asking the difficult questions and we're doing a lot of contemplation and self reflection, self inquiry, and then again, you are holding space for whatever those answers were, not to be shame, not to be anything [00:37:00] like this is your truth.

And you get to make a decision from, from that place. And so, yeah, I really appreciate, um, the community there. And then now with the Child Free Connection community, there's more people. And it's like, you know, and it's 

Veronica: growing every day. Yeah, it's, 

Delilah: uh, it's, it's nice to be 

Veronica: able to, I think, go from. You know, it's child free for me into the community because it's filled with people that are just like in so much, um, celebration of this lifestyle, but also are still very thoughtful about it and still want to discuss it on a deeper level.

We share resources. We share experiences that we still have, right? Even after you make this decision. Life still happens and it's nice to hop into somewhere where you can just say like this happened to me this weekend and we could all like either most likely we've been there or we can absolutely relate to each 

Delilah: other's experiences.

We have to be intentional and like look for [00:38:00] belonging. It doesn't just happen. If you're feeling you are yearning for connection, it's in your control to go and find it. I'm just really proud of myself for like. saying like, this is what I need because I, again, two and a half, three years, just being in isolation with this decision with just me and my husband wasn't giving me what I needed to like, overcome the shame.

Yeah, 

Veronica: I mean, I, I mean, that's amazing to hear. And I think it's such a good point to me about just like taking that action that you just mentioned. And also, sometimes I think that people, because we have quite a few introverts in the global child free community, and I think that people also assume like, well, I'm not an extrovert, so this isn't for me, but I think it's always worth trying, right, especially if you're feeling isolated or if you're feeling feeling.

Um, like you said, not belonging in any way because it's not where you're stepping into something where sure you can hop on [00:39:00] on a stage and talk to everybody and tell everybody your story, but you don't 

Delilah: have to do that. Yeah. And I'm, I'm the type of person that does that. As much as I can go and be like outgoing and bubbly and everything outside, I do need a lot of time to retreat to myself and with the program, like I 

Veronica: meet with people first, like in order to give them an invite into the program and people always like, you're crazy.

You should just like, you know, you'd have like 300 people at once if you just let everybody in. I'm like, But then it wouldn't be the same. Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't be the same at all. Like people have to feel like the right people are here to go through this together. Like that is so important, right?

Because if a different energy comes in, completely different perspective or just something that's going to rattle the energy of the space, um, it's just not the same. So, yeah. I appreciate 

Delilah: that. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. for me. And I know you teach yoga as well. It's like what we practice on the mat is not just [00:40:00] that it's what we take off the mat.

And so what I've learned in the program I'm taking into the outside world. And so since my surgery, I've been working on, you know, also gauging like who's a safe person to talk to about it. And the more people I've told about my surgery and the more confident I've been in it. The amount of stories I get back from mothers who are like, wow, me being open about what was behind my decision opens up this really beautiful space for other people to start telling me their stories.

Yeah, 

Veronica: absolutely. And I hear that from a lot of people in the program saying that the fact that they're so honest and really talk about it, that they're having that similar experience. That's the hope, right? Like, that was my hope of like, You know, we can just like spread and spread and spread and spread.

So young women will always know, will eventually know that there is a choice and here are the choices and there's not [00:41:00] a right and wrong and everything that we learn together, um, can just hopefully spread to the rest of the world. So yeah, we're on a mission. We're on a mission that all of us, you know, I find us all to be equally like, You know, invested and into having that make that a 

Delilah: reality.

Yeah. And I think again, we go into this and come out of it with a lot of understanding and compassion. And so it's not child free versus parents. It's if I can hold space for you as a parent to tell me why you want to have children, I'm worthy and deserving of you holding space for for me to express why I don't want children.

Like, you know, like there needs to be that equal compassion. And so for me, I want to like model that in the world and just be like, okay, you can have your decision and you can have your opinions and your choices. Uh, and I will honor that. And all I ask in return is that you honor that for me, [00:42:00] too. Yeah.

Well, you're doing it. You're doing it. so 

Veronica: much, Delilah. This was 

Delilah: so, I mean, we can talk for hours. 

Veronica: And it happens whenever we meet with the girls, too, right? I'm like, we could sit here for four hours easily and just keep talking to one another and sharing. 

Delilah: Thanks, Delilah. Thanks, Veronica. And again, one day you guys might see me on The Amazing Race and it'll just be hilarious.

thing for us to talk about. We'll see you then. Yay. Thank you.